Natalie's new lecture 03 on the 30th of May 2007

Me: Good morning to you Claude.

Claude: So we begin another day.

Me: So what do you want to talk about today?

Claude: I am not really sure as I don’t plan anymore.

Me: Well that’s a shame because you should do and I do know that you look forward to these sessions that we have.

Claude: Yes.

Me: I will start it off then. Earlier on Natalie and I were talking about Spirit and time, so which is the best way to talk to you and Spirit in relation to time values.

Claude: Your seasons, because we can observe that happening, where going by months and years because it is difficult to observe a year. It is difficult to observe a month and it is even more difficult to observe a week because we don’t need to measure time. Time is used only to know when you must visit someone or when you set your goal to do this, when it is your birthday and other things that we Spirit don’t require.

Me: So when it comes down to weeks and months or even years, time for you is just the four seasons. Okay, I never thought of that one. George, when he was last alive always gave the impression that Spirit does not understand the meaning of time.

Claude: Of course we understand time, that was a ridiculous conception and he knows that now. It goes back to the old thing that people assume just because we are Spirit we are some sort of other being.

Me: But you’re not.

Claude: No, well in a way we are a different being now it’s just the next stage, the next form.

Me: Because as far as I’m concerned Spirit never dies out, it’s an impossibility. I remember once in one of my old classes somebody asked me about Spirit and time and I want to know if I am correct with what I am going to say. I said that where Spirit is concerned there is no beginning and there is no end and that is the correct thing to say.

Claude: Yes.

Me: Spirit world and Spirit is always there.

Claude: You just can’t conceptionalise it, it’s a physical impossibility, so it’s one of those things you don’t dwell on because it will give you a headache

Me: True, but the human being as far as I’m concerned understands a beginning and an end but where a beginning and an end does not exist in the world of Spirit, the human being has great difficulty coming to terms with that one.

Claude: No, everything on this particular plane of existence everything that you do has a start and a finish, but when we go beyond this particular plane of existence then you start to understand slightly, even I can’t grasp the conception of it but I understand it somewhat, better than you would.

I always like to think of Spirit like water, it’s in the lake, it’s in the ocean and eventually it evaporates, vanishes and falls back down in the rain and then goes back to being a river or a lake, it never goes away. It’s always there, there’s always the same amount. Sometimes there’s a little less in one place and more in another.

Me: Another question that I think is worth asking as well, I was asked years ago how big is the world of Spirit and I answered it by saying that if you put all the universes together, complete space, that’s how big it is. Spirit world is just in a different dimension.

Claude: Yes, There’s sort of layers of existence, I’m fairly sure that there are some that even I can’t see.

Me: Alright, as far as the world of Spirit is concerned when George Eldred used to talk about the seven planes of existence which are “The Earth plane, The Astral plane, The Mental plane, The Buddhic plane, The Nirvana plane, The Para Nirvana plane and The God Head is not correct, the only ones that do exist are The Earth plane and The Astral plane which is just another name for the world of Spirit.

Claude: You are correct and no the other’s don’t, it’s a ridiculous concept, it’s really pointless.

Me: I totally agree with you, I never believed it at the time because it never made no sense and I am not blaming George as that was his belief because he was taught that and he accepted that and taught others.

Claude: There’s nothing out there apart from the world of Spirit. As a Spirit, if you are completely satisfied with what you have learned when you were last on the Earth plane and you just don’t have any inclination to return to the Earth plane then you don’t, you can teach if you want too. If a Spirit wants to return to the Earth plane later on then that Spirit will not teach, they prepare for their next round of existence. Me, well I’m perfectly happy with what’s happened to me.

Me: I bet you are.

Claude: I may perhaps one day choose to go back hopefully not, but it is crucially your choice.

Me: That was going to be my next question. People are under the impression that they have to come back to continually learn, but if you want to come back you can, if you don’t ever want to come back, for instance like Asa as she has no inclination whatsoever to ever come back to the Earth plane.

Claude: People seem to think that Spirit world is like some sort of waiting room, it’s not, it’s another world where you can learn different things, to learn things that you couldn’t learn on the Earth plane. You can learn things from the Earth plane. I don’t see why one should go back and endure the trial of this Earth plane existence again, when you can get all the information you require, maybe not the physical experiences but the information you want right here in the world of Spirit and you can get more. There are those who are inclined to go on quests of knowledge rather than quests of experience.

Me: The lessons that you have in this life are the lessons that you as Spirit requested before you arrived here and you cannot change those lessons. I was doing a lecture through George the other night and it came up if that you as a human being are not happy with a particular thing that is going on in your life, even though it may incorporate a lesson, you can’t change the lesson but you can change what you are doing at anytime.

Claude: Yes, when you are on this Earth plane, when you are learning your lessons, you’re still Spirit and you still have that option to choose. Yes you can still change your circumstances.

Me: Just like changing a job.

Claude: Yes. If you are not happy with a particular area of your life then you are entitled to change it.

Me: But you will not be able to change the lesson.

Claude: No. It’s rarely the lesson that is the problem; it’s usually the circumstances that you wish to change and not the lesson.

Me: Because I was curious about that the other night because first of all I was working with George and then Lin-Po came in as well, the lecture did not change but it just got more dominant. Very many people are under the impression that you couldn’t change your circumstances, if you did change your circumstances then you would be brought back to the original, shall I say path.

Claude: Unless it is absolutely totally one hundred percent necessary, which is unusual? Let us use you as an example where this is concerned, but I will not go into detail about your personal life. A little while ago you changed completely your circumstances, just for a while. Let us say you felt that you could better yourself, but after a period of time, yes, you were brought back to your original path, but during that period of time there was a lesson that you HAD to learn, which you did. Also during that time you learned a lot more about my world and you created “The writings of Terence”. You were brought back to carry on from where you originally started, but with a lot more knowledge because it is here that you must carry on the teachings of my world. She (Natalie) and yourself must work together. You both will teach others to become teachers especially you because that is your role, it always has been, but you never realized it at the time.

Nothing is set in concrete, there’s no destiny or anything. There are things that are most likely going to happen and things that you would like to happen. There are lessons to be learnt and most of them are abstract concepts to the people on the human plane. You must learn how to apply yourself to a particular task but that’s not useful for a Spirit that’s only useful over here.

Me: I was not insulting your intelligence on our last questions and answer session, but the problem that I have with Spirit is that you have forgotten what it’s like to be a human being. The difficulties that we have to put up with, where you do not have to put up with them over their.

Claude: To put it in a way that might be more understandable to you is that we have not forgotten. It’s like saying you’ve forgotten what its like to be a small child. You’ve never actually forgotten it’s just that you’ve got so much more on top of that.

Me: I can understand that now.

Claude: Some people can connect with that small child that they were, but most can’t. Most tend to lose it and some even try and block it out.

Me: That’s different circumstances for different people.

Claude: Or even if they’ve had a completely pleasant childhood, sometimes the idea of being a child, being something needy something elemental is a horrendous concept to the educated human being.

Me: It’s just that I find that with these sessions that we are having at the moment; hopefully they will be more useful for other people out there, because as Natalie and I were talking earlier on, you cannot find a decent book about the learning of Spirit because I believe they don’t exist, as I guarantee somewhere along the line some bastard is going to bring fairies and angels or something like that into their book.

Claude: Or twenty different Indian guides, how everyone has an Indian guide, there weren’t that many Red Indians.

Me: No I totally agree there, or even Chinese or Egyptian.

Claude: No, but there were quite a great deal of Egyptians but most of them were slaves, just normal people they weren’t some sort of mystical race of higher beings.

Me: Peoples Spirit guides can be male or female from any country in a past life.

Claude: They can be an old Shakespearian actor from Lambeth, London (That was once Claude).

Me: I’m not even going to answer that. (Laughter on both sides).  I understand, but there is so much confusion that sits out there and to me it will be these sessions that will make people understand a lot better. It’s the people that thought that they understood Spirit, that have made it so complicated and they have put ground rules in when there isn’t any.

Claude: They get it to begin with and then they say to themselves, “no, it can’t be this simple” and that’s it and then they start complicating it by adding rituals and all those ridiculous things.

Me: It’s just a simple process.

Claude: yes, very simple.

Me: But it’s far simpler than a human being realizes.

Claude: People need to complicate things. You always look for the most complicated answer before you look for the most important.

Me: Yes, I agree with that one, human beings are like that. If anyone’s going to stuff a life up I can guarantee it will be a human being. Yes I can see your point of view, most definitely.

What advice would you give to an up and coming person that wants to be involved with Spirit, how would they know that you, Spirit are contacting them.

Claude: That all depends on the person. Some people we can dance in front of them visually naked wearing a colourful shawl and they still wouldn’t notice. But talking about the average person, it’s so frustrating for us and I am sure it’s just as frustrating for them. They know it’s there, its just fear that holds them back.

Me: Alright, I didn’t think that you would be able to answer the question, because people quite often ask me, how do you know it’s Spirit.

Claude: You just do it.

Me: You just have to accept it and I totally believe that Spirit can always surprise you because they even do it with me.

Claude: One that may help, it’s as if you go oh, was that me or was that them. Ask yourself have I got anything to gain from saying this. If the answer is no, then it must be Spirit, if the answer is yes if I tell them this then they will do this, then that’s probably you.

Me: Okay, I won’t dispute that, but for me, when I know that Spirit is around I get the sensation that my heart is racing or I get this itchy feeling on my forehead and also on the crown of my head.

Claude: Yes, there pretty common ones, some people get cold or feel cold breezes. There not necessarily happening, there not natural, it’s just one of the things we try and do to get attention, but there is not much that we can do.

Me: All I’m trying to do is to make it easier for people out there to understand that you, Spirit and the up and coming clairvoyant, medium or whatever to understand the connection between Spirit and the human being. It’s very difficult for them, the human being and I am just looking for an answer that I can give them.

Can you remember those two ladies, Andrea and Kirsten for arguments sake, it drove them balmy because they just couldn’t make that connection and hold on to it and I know full well why because they tried too bloody hard.

Claude: They were looking for more complicated ways of contact and not looking for the simple one.

Me: That’s it, that’s it, that’s the answer I was looking for, because the human being makes this work more complicated than it is.

Claude: Yes. You can apply that answer to just about everything. Look at you, where you are looking for a venue for the new classes, how hard is that, it’s a place how difficult is it too look. I am not going to say that you’re going to find one easily, but yes, who is making it difficult.

Me: No, I was not looking at that, but you were naturally listening to the conversation earlier on between Natalie and myself because you are always there and I respect that. But looking for a venue for the lectures and classes between Natalie and myself, well, it’s not so much that it is going to be difficult, but the problem is finding the right area, because if you put it in the wrong area, it’s not going to work. Here I go again, I think I’m about to be told off, yes I know I am. Alright I can answer it, because if people know where the venue is and they want to learn, then they will come from miles away.

Claude: But you are right in some ways as there are areas that you shouldn’t try, but you already know where those areas are. You don’t have to say that I am not sure if this is a Spirit area. You will go to a place and you will know because you will sense it. You’ve got the trust of Spirit and you know this.

Me: Let’s be honest about it, I trust Spirit one hundred and ten percent. My life wouldn’t be worth playing around with if I didn’t believe in Spirit and you have to believe in something. It’s like Mathew the Spirit guide said the other day in this room, you have got to have faith, no matter what you are doing you must have faith and I accept that and my faith is Spirit, so I don’t have a problem with it. But trying to put that over to the average human being is not at all easy.

People have got this terrible attitude where Spirit is concerned. People think it is a terrible sin to commit suicide but my argument to that is that suicide is a lesson that Spirit has requested.

Claude: Not necessarily suicide, the hardships that led up to that point would have been requested. Suicide itself is an act, it’s a human act it has nothing to do with lessons that Spirit would have to learn.

Me: Because the suicide is the actual death.

Claude: Yes, Spirit does not need to know how to die.

Me: No, because Spirit has already got that experience.

Claude: Exactly, so the actual death has nothing to do with the lesson, it’s the hardship leading up to it and it is very rare in any case of suicide that it was the necessary choice. It’s a bad choice in certain senses, the human sense of the emotional loss and that sort of thing of those that get left behind, but it’s not going to send you to some circle of hell or anything like that.

Me: No as far as I am concerned the person who has committed suicide, they died hopefully instantly and within a second they are in the world of Spirit.

Claude: They would have had to suffer a great deal to get to that point.

Me: You mean on the Earth plane, the human side.

Claude: Yes. It’s not like that we are going to punish them anymore for suffering beyond their ability to cope with whatever caused them to suicide.

Me: The only thing that I feel is, when the person has committed suicide would be terribly upset and would need some care from your side.

Claude: There is that, its not just suicides it’s also people who die in wars and things like that as well.  

Me: Your mob must have been busy in the First and Second World Wars.

Claude: Very much so, a lot of people saw and went through a great deal of traumatic things and it affected them quite badly and that requires a great deal of comfort, just as much as if they would have come back here in your world.

Me: If people can only understand what the death of a human being is all about, although to a human being, death is a frightening thing because it’s the end of what they know, but it is only the end of the human life and you go back home and start living again in the Spirit world.

Claude: It’s not so much the end is frightening, because we can’t convey what it’s like here and people just don’t know and its inevitability. Everything that you do in the life, accept for ageing, you have some control over. But something that you have absolutely no control over is completely no questions asked; inevitable is terrifying; it’s out of your control.

Me: Well, religion has not helped where the death is concerned.

Claude: Neither has atheism. Atheism is a skeptical society it’s a very terrifying thing to think that everything finishes, it awakens the other fear of the human beings and that’s futility, what was the point, have I done this for no particular reason,  it’s a ridiculous concept.

Me: I never looked at it like that, atheism I mean, no not at all, you don’t have any hope. I’m under the impression that an atheist does not believe in religion.

Claude: No, they don’t believe in anything after death, they believe in oblivion. But it is the most ridiculous religion there is, if you want to call atheism a religion. It’s a system of belief, you believe there’s nothing. Just because you believe there’s nothing doesn’t mean it’s not a belief.

But, if you look at it logically, before the world became multicultural and everybody started to talk to everybody else. Every single society believed in the afterlife, every single one of them all around the world believed in some sort of afterlife. They complicated it which is normal for the human being.

Me: What, religion?

Claude: Yes, belief in general, it was always complicated, but they all believed. How can every single society with their completely different practices and ways of life, how can they all come to the same conclusion if there doesn’t have some sort of truth in it. One can argue that most of them believed in a sun god, but again that was simply complications that was trying to understand something and putting a reason to it. The sun gives us life so it must be a god.

Me: Again the human being complicates it.

Claude: Yes, they come to the ridiculous conclusions just to explain something rather than thinking, ok, it’s a big ball of light so it must be a big ball of light then.

Me: Thank you very much Claude, I thing that we will end it here today as it does take quite a while to put this into type written words.

Claude: And thank you for the opportunity to speak.

End of Lecture