Natalie's new lecture 04 on the 12th of June 2007

Me: Good morning Claude.

Claude: Good morning to you and have you any questions this morning.

Me: Yes I have. This is something that I am curious about and it is do with people that heal from Spirit, like me. Is it possible for a healer to physically be able to put their hands inside another human beings body to remove let us say a cancerous growth?

Claude: That’s only the way that you visualize it.

Me: That’s not a good answer.

Claude: Do you actually mean physically, physically.

Me: Yes.

Claude: No.

Me: I cannot remember what these healers are called, but I think that they come from the Philippines, round that area somewhere. I did not think that it was a physically possible thing to do.

Claude: There are so many things, for arguments sake let us say that you have a tumor inside your stomach, now there are so many things between there and your stomach.

Me: That’s right, so another person cannot physically put their hands inside another person’s body unless that person is cut open.

Claude: No they can’t, because there is so much that can be interfered with, just for an instant they could create a blockage with the blood flow, anything. You can do it spiritually but you can’t do it physically.

Me: Alright, so when you are talking about doing it spiritually, it’s like a person like me, I did work on a person that did have a tumor on the brain and I worked on her for about six weeks and the tumor did go, but nobody knew if it was Spirit or the doctors but I just knew before the doctors that the tumor had gone. Its like the healer, the human being is just like a telephone link between Spirit and the patient.

Claude: Yes.

Me: I believe that a good healer can cure anything, would I be right or wrong.

Claude: Yes, the problem is they know that to.

Me: Who does?

Claude: Science.

Me: The science of the human being here on the Earth plane.

Claude: Yes.

Me: But they won’t accept it.

Claude: No, it’s slightly unreliable, but it’s like natural medicine, they know it works, there are side effects to certain natural remedies but they’ve worked around it and they know it works. What’s better for them if they come up with some drug with a ridiculously long name that helps make it sound somewhat better but people still have to keep on taking this drug, but there maybe something that grows in the back garden that will cure it.

Me: Yes I understand.

Claude: People do not want to accept the fact that at the moment science is ruled by money.

Me: Yes, but again you have still got that problem that the human being will complicate even the most natural things.

Claude: Yes.

Me: Because I know with the Red Indians and the Aboriginals that they believe in the natural ways of healing, like for instance certain plants, a particular root of a tree, those sorts of things, but they believe that they work and they do help to cure.

Claude: Yes, and most of them do, the rest of it is that horribly negative word, placebo which is a misconception, you’ll say oh it’s a placebo, you’re only believing it works but you’re tricking yourself, you’re not tricking yourself you’re helping your own body figure it out. You can cure yourself in just about everything; you will be amazed what your mind can do.

Me: I read a book once that stated the fact that the average human being will only ever use one eighth of their brain, is that true.

Claude: Yes.

Me: So a human being can really create anything he or she wants if they were capable of using all their brain.

Claude: They can’t physically make something appear, but yes they can do so much more than they understand, but it’s not taught anymore.

Me: So in other words the average human being has become and I am not saying lazy as physically lazy, but mentally they have become lazy and just accept what their told.

Claude: Yes.

Me: That’s terrible.

Claude: Yes, it’s a disgusting waste, but there is no one to teach you to use that part of your brain. If there was no one to teach you how to argue logically, how to learn, how to read, how to write then you would simply exist on the most basic level, completely animal level. But because people learn inch by inch and teach it to others and people learn from them, you slowly started using more and more from that animal level then maybe one day you will slowly learn to use the whole of the brain.

Me: Well I don’t think that will happen in my lifetime.

Claude: Oh definitely not, you’ve only covered one eighth over many thousands of years. You are holding yourself back but that’s normal for human beings.

Me: So in the Spirit world with the likes of you and Asa, Lin-Po, the guides that we know, you all will use a lot more you’re brain.

Claude: We don’t have a physical brain, but we have the capabilities, yes. The relationship between Spirit and the body, Spirit is to be rather blunt a parasite.

Me: That’s not nice.

Claude: Basically you’re sitting in this body and using it to gain experience. You’re body is using you to eat, to survive, to grow, like a plant really, it needs you and you need it just for this life.

You’re brain is sort of like a radio, tune it into Spirit. Certain people with disabilities or mental problems are just like a badly tuned radio. One day they will figure out how to tune it in properly, not anytime soon but they will.

Me: This is getting back to a conversation that we had the last time, where Spirit can on the Spirit world can use any physical body it wants to if it feels the need.

Claude: Yes, well to give you an example of what Spirit can do, you know how they move things around particularly mischievous ones; they don’t have a physical body.

Me: Alright.

Claude: So if you are fully capable of using your entire Spirit as it is on the Spirit plane, as you would be able to if you could use one hundred percent of your brain, you could do that too. Move things without actually touching them using Spirit to do it.

Me: Alright, I think that I can understand that.

Claude: It’s the most basic because communicating with other Spirits without physically vocalizing.

Me: All Spirit can move things on the Earth plane.

Claude: Not all of them, some of them still haven’t got over their human connection; they feel that they can’t do it so they don’t. I could but I don’t because I know it unnerves people, it’s rude because people suffer enough.

Me: I totally agree, it’s quite frightening for people on this side.

Claude: Even people who are used to it, it can be unnerving.

Me: Well let’s be truthful, if other people are watching Natalie and I now, at this very moment, it could bother them.

Claude: It would bother them a lot because they would try and complicate it and say that this is not possible, it’s just not possible and that is their first instinct is to disbelieve.

Me: Yes I can understand that because it is easier to disbelieve than what it is to believe.

Claude: Give them credit; they have been fooled a great many times.

Me: Are you talking about me personally.

Claude: No, no definitely not. Just human beings in general through history of being tricked that many times that they are very, very wary now.

Me: Which is a shame?

Claude: It is, but its sort of good and sort of not because they eventually come round to realizing that through a very long slow laborious process that this isn’t fake, but it helps them figure out who is fake in most cases.

Me: Alright, I had an experience when I was living in Western Australia and that was I was taking some digital photographs in the lounge and when I put them on the computer to look at them, some of them had small round globes of light as if sitting on the drapes. Would that have been Spirit?

Claude: Most likely.

Me: You say most likely, what else could they have been?

Claude: There could be an error with your camera possibly where light is concerned.

Me: No, no definitely not as I was changing the angle of the camera with every photo that I took.

Claude: Then probably yes.

Me: So if Spirit wanted to they can materialize in any form that they want.

Claude: They quite frequently do but people do not realize it because they are not transparent or they do not look like they are wearing a sheet.

Lots of laughter from me.

Me: I like that remark.

Claude: You know where that came from don’t you.

Me: What the wearing of a sheet.

Claude: Yes.

Me: You tell me because I have got an impression sitting with me at the moment.

Claude: It’s because of shroud clothing.

Me: Oh, I didn’t think of that one.

Claude: Well that’s where that came from. Where did you think that they came from?

Me: It was just that I was surfing the internet a while ago and I came upon this American web site where ghosts and the photographs of ghosts was concerned and these were very old photographs and you could see that they were fakes. It was when cameras first came out and these photographs deceived people, because in those days people were under the impression that a photograph cannot lie. There was one that was supposed to be a ghost or apparition with a sheet completely covering whatever from head to toe. That’s what I thought you were talking about.

Claude: No, no, no.

Me: Claude, you have no faith in America do you.

Claude: Mostly because of the charlatans that are there and adding to the disbelief in the world of Spirit.

Me: Yes I can accept that.

Claude: They are making it a lot worse. There are a few there that are quite genuine. People don’t realize that they have seen Spirit because they just look like another human being but you don’t realize it.

Me: I didn’t think of that one. While we are talking about this, years ago I was taught that a person to be able see Spirit, now don’t have a go at me, for a person to be able to see Spirit, they say that you see Spirit with the third eye or the middle eye which sat in the middle of the forehead all though you cannot see this eye. Now there are millions and millions of people who are still under that stupid impression and it is stupid because you only see with your two eyes that you have am I right or wrong.

Claude: Yes, the third eye is a metaphorical term, to say it’s like having a sixth sense.

Me: Yes I can accept that.

Claude: it’s just a term; it’s not a physical thing that exists.

Me: You would be amazed the amount of people in this life that believe that to be able to see Spirit you can only see through this third eye or middle eye.

Claude: No I wouldn’t be surprised really. Because where you get extreme sin -ism you also get extreme gullibility. To really work with Spirit you have to have a really good dose of sin -ism but you’ve not got to take it to stupid levels.

Me: My attitude to that answer is that if you stay basic with Spirit then the connection is a lot easier.

Claude: You question.

Me: You have to question.

Claude: Yes. We have been reminded of something that was given to us (Natalie and Claude) on the internet last night that maybe will apply and it’s something called “the black eyed children”, but it’s said to be these children with completely black eyes that give you spooky feelings when you come close to them.

We’ve been given these as somebody thought it was quite amusing and sent it to us knowing what we. They said that we might get some amusement out of this. People were writing down accounts of coming into contact with these children with completely black eyes with no whites or anything. There are a great deal of people that believed it and they had written quite detailed accounts that you could almost believe were actual accounting of events.

However this is where the questioning comes in, when one reads something or listens to something you will attempt to believe it before you attempt to disbelieve it. With the second instinct the attempt to disbelieve it there are two ways that you can go, you can go extreme sin -ism which is to reject it completely or you can go the way that you should do if it is a spiritual thing is that you look at it and question it. We knew instinctively that it was incorrect because we know this sort of thing does not exist.

But the thing to look at analytically in all these accounts that were being said, that the children were coming up to my house, knocked on my door and asked to use the toilet. Two teenage boys come to your door, knock on your door and ask to use your domestic toilet. What sort of idiot let’s them in and secondly what sort of person does that in the first place. Then of course the lady in the story said oh yes, do go up to my toilet which is upstairs near my bedroom with all my valuables, and I shall just wait down here while you go and rifle through my bedroom, because some unidentified teenage males who has of course no nefarious ideas, while the other one can use my phone to ring whoever they like, whether it be international or interstate, just go right ahead.

People do not react like that, peoples first reaction to strangers is fear. Teenage children, teenage boy’s particularly, especially in America with all the violence that goes on over there. Think logically on how you would react in that circumstance, to the statement in those accounts, “I was driving away and that is when I realized that they had entirely black eyes”. Wouldn’t that be the first thing one noticed. It is not that common that one just overlooks that sort of thing. It’s evidently ridiculous stories but it’s an example that I have come up with.

When you look at it, you don’t reject it immediately even if it is completely ridiculous, but looking at it logically you will come to your own conclusions.

Me: I want to go back to a person that is learning to come to grips with Spirit, like in a class or something like that. The teaching that sits out there states that the first thought that comes into your mind is Spirit, the second thought is you. Do you understand what I am saying?

Claude: Somewhat, yes.

Me: But that’s not right is it.

Claude: No, It can work in anyway, perhaps you’re thinking so hard and come up with something, Spirit may correct you, so therefore it would be you first and Spirit second.

Me: Yes I thought that.

Claude: But sometimes it is Spirit first and then you saying “oh no it can’t be that”. No that doesn’t work.

Me: Then that is the difficult part, is it Spirit or is it me.

Claude: Yes, and if you take it back to looking at it logically why would there be any reason for me to be thinking this, but then again that will be questioned and maybe I’m trying too hard and then you end up being confused, there’s no easy way to do it.

Me: No I know that, I’m just trying to pick up the information from you so that people who read this start to look at it in a different manner, because I’m trying to get rid of the rules and regulations that the human being has put into all this work where learning to work with Spirit is concerned..

Claude: There are no rules.

Me: There’s none at all.

Claude: There’s no reason for them.

Me: I agree, why should there be, but then again the human being loves to complicate matters.

Claude: They like to be regulated, they like rules and they like to feel quite mystical. If one start to visualize a white light it feels like I’m doing something mystical.

Me: People have this impression that you pray to the white light or you cleanse yourself in the white light before you can contact Spirit or after you have contacted Spirit, but there’s no such thing as the white light.

Claude: No, Spirit just stands around and waits for you to finish. Have you quite finished then, now we can start? Spirit does tend to contact you after those things because it has been waiting. Okay have you finished with the white light, okay, now we can work? We could have worked before all that crap, but you did insist.

Me: In the Spirit world, I believe that Spirit has emotions of sorts, they do get impatient and angry. Now when I say angry I mean not with their own kind, but definitely with the human being.

Claude:  Our emotions are at a different level because it doesn’t have the physical part you get with human beings. When you become angry in the physical body you become shall I say blind to the normal, you begin to shake and you loose control because your mind, that radio sensor sort of freezes up and you become angry.  We don’t really hate, we dislike. Hate is again a very human thing.

Me: The other emotion that I am curious about is love; it is not a physical love on your side.

Claude: There is no physical anything on my side.

Me: But the emotion of love is on your side.

Claude: Very much, but it’s without the complication of jealousy and envy, without possessiveness and that sort of thing.

Me: What spiritualists and the like class as unconditional love and I really cannot stand that expression.

Claude: Yes, the term makes it sound like something’s wrong, something almost foolish.

Me: Yes definitely.

Claude: Yes, it’s pretty much the same thing.

Me: So the emotions that the human being experiences really do not exist on your side.

Claude: Not the way you experience them.

Me: Because there is no jealousy, there’s no hate, no nothing, just the mental side of love.

Claude: There’s the mental side to a lot of things, I mean if one dislikes the colour brown then one would still dislike the colour brown in Spirit, that is what makes you, you. Things can irritate us over here, things can anger us, but it’s just that we do not have the actual physical sensations of it. I mean physical sensations as in you feel your heart pounding that sort of physical sensation, you can feel it.

Me: Okay. It’s just that nobody really knows about the emotions of Spirit, I don’t think that it has ever been talked about.

Claude: Some people say that the Spirit has no emotion, imagine having no emotion, you would feel nothing, you would be nothing, nothing would affect you and you would affect nothing. With no drive, with no passion, no anything you would just sit there. It wouldn’t bother you that you’re not doing anything because you don’t feel bothered, you don’t feel anything and that is just a ridiculous concept.

Me: But that’s what’s taught.

Claude: But it’s not to be believed.

Me: I remember Natalie sending me an email where the Spirit George Eldred contacted her so that he could have had a right go at me and I am not going to repeat what he actually said, but that told me that George was angry with me.

Claude: Yes, I remember that as I was there also because I sent you a message as well, do you remember that.

Me: Yes I did, but George had a go at me because I wasn’t doing all the work that I am capable of doing for Spirit.

Claude: Yes that’s right, he was frustrated and yes we get angry but we don’t get spiteful.

Me: Yes that’s a better way of putting it, because the way that you explained it before wasn’t really coming across properly, well not with what I have experienced with Spirit.

Claude: It can be quite difficult to find the right words at times as you very well know when you are working with these audio tapes of our conversations.

Me: I totally agree with what you are saying.

Claude: We don’t hold grudges.

Me: I can understand anger without being spiteful or holding a grudge or doing something nasty.

Claude: Yes, you don’t really have that sort of ego or pride, well you can have ego and pride but it doesn’t dominate.

Me: I don’t know what you would do without ego or pride Claude.

Claude: That’s why I decided to clarify that because me being me that would have been a contradiction.

Me: I totally agree.

Claude: It’s not a driving force. One will hang onto something if somebody slights you on the physical plane, or you will hang onto it and you will still be angry about it, even if the person may apologize, you will still be angry about it, still want to possibly punish that person. With Spirit, your angry with that person for not working as they should, their being a bloody lazy sod, but then they start to work and Spirit say’s okay, good, now there’s no need to continue to be angry.

Me: No, it’s pointless.

Claude: Yes, with no inclination to continue holding onto that emotion.

Me: So if people hang onto that emotion, that anger that actually holds them back.

Claude: Yes, people who hang onto that emotion, even love if they have broken up with somebody, you may still love them, stop dwelling on it and get over it. Okay you may love them but accept it and move on.

Me: Yes I agree with that one. So emotion will have the tendency to hold a person back.

Claude: Yes very much.

Me: I always thought that but most people out there don’t think of it. But when you have two people together that love each other then that is not holding a person back.

Claude: No not at all.

Me: But when it goes into a situation where the two people separate and either one still hangs on to that affection, that love.

Claude: You are together, you are in love that’s fine, but it’s holding onto it when you know that you should let it go. Forcing yourself to love someone when you don’t, perhaps you did once but now, you’re fond of that person but that deep love has just gone away. People will hang on to it because they are too scared to let it go because it means admitting that they were wrong.

Me: Okay, so a person can keep the fondness there but definitely not the deep love.

Claude: But if it is there, that’s fine.

Me: Because that would have nothing to do with the lesson of life.

Claude: No.

Me: In fact if anything, that could complicate the existing lesson that is going on at that time.

Claude: Yes. It all boils down to two things, people hate being wrong.

Me: But it’s far better to admit that you were wrong so then you can progress.

Claude: Yes definitely in fact it’s quite healing to admit that you were wrong and it’s like facing a fear, you face it and goodness me you feel better, that was not as bad as you thought. You just sit there and turn around and say “I was wrong”, that wasn’t difficult was it.

Me: I can accept what you are saying because of different situations that I have gone through in my life and I think to myself, well I was bloody well wrong there or I made a fool of myself there and I really never ever hang onto a grudge because I find it so pointless.

Claude: Yes it is and the other reason is fear of change. People being afraid to change, afraid of change around them.

Me: Well that’s a big fear.

Claude: Yes, hanging on to emotion is a fear of it changing.

Me: Well this is what George, Lin-Po and I were discussing a little while ago and that is now a lecture on my web site, that if you’re not happy with anything then you really should change it, because once you’ve changed it then your life moves on.

Claude: People don’t like to change things, even bad things.

Me: No because once you change something then you go into the unknown.

Claude: Yes that is the fear of the unknown.

Me: Alright then, I think that we will end today’s discussion at this point and I would like to thank you Claude for spending the time with us today.

Claude: It’s been my pleasure I can assure you, until we meet again then.

End of Lecture